Belay sliding x vs quad anchor forum There is an ugly, bulky solution for redundancy: I've used two slings to make the X. Jun 12, 2021 · 1. If you can solve for that, it's probably Ok. A quad anchor set up to belay up your partner on a standard two-bolt anchor. The sliding X consists of carabiners on the two bolts connected by a sling or cord (at least 120cm), with limited knots and a twist for redundancy. Here, you need to double your cordellete so that it has four equal strands of length. "Regrettably when the belayer is attached to the belay and one piece fails under the impact of the falling leader (which is the most likely event) the belayer is accelerated downwards not by gravity but the force imposed by the leader through the belay device. In my own climbing, I rarely get to use bolted anchors (barring the local crags) so I build anchors off of trees, boulders, and/or gear. Photo Galleries; My Photo Gallery; Latest Photos; Weekly Top 10; Videos; Latest Videos; Categories; Hashtags; Athletes; Search May 13, 2009 · Rock Climbing Forum ; Belay Anchors Belay Anchors. Be careful where you use self-equalizing anchors and make sure to tie appropriate extension-limiting knots to reduce the possible sudden shift in belay position. Nov 13, 2014 · A sewn runner is perfectly adequate as a belay anchor. If you are clipped into the 'shelf' on just one side of the quad and that side blows, whatever is clipped into that 'shelf' is going to extend the full distance of the quad before it finally loads the other bolts. However, with some setups the sudden jolt could cause you to lose control of your belay device. Pre-distributed anchors like those made with an overhand knot put the vast majority of a load on one arm when they’re pulled off-axis. In the real world, it’s easier to achieve effective distribution with a true self-distributing anchor like a quad. nowadays we can see that the acceleration is probably around 4g looking at the Apr 13, 2020 · The sliding X is simple to set up: take a sling, clip it to two pieces, put a twist in one of the strands, and clip a locking carabiner through both the twist and the other strand. But there are lots of multi-pitch climbs with great anchor bolts at the belay. Number of Anchor Points (applies to Sliding Anchors) A sliding anchor with three points doesn’t even theoretically distribute load equally as demonstrated in the image below. Forums. Designed for quick use by climbers on site, this field guide is up to date with essential knowledge every climber can depend on to easily evaluate climbing anchors. jbmountains Mar 21, 2008 · Maybe belaying the second from the P point of a Sliding X (me on separate personal protection to the bolts) as this can change direction after removing the last piece, although this would be still awkward. They prevent the anchor from a large extension if one of the anchor points fail. 3. - Since the quad needs to be doubled up, it is difficult to equalize anchors where the placements are far apart. Make an informed decision when setting your anchor based on the conditions of the bolts (if one looks more suspect than the other, avoid the Sliding X and go with the Figure 8 on a Bight) and the nature of the route below (if it is a wandering route, use the Sliding X so Jun 30, 2008 · With a sliding X, you are relying on one piece of webbing. Oct 7, 2016 · I prefer master point anchors because they are much quicker to tie than a quad. For gear anchors, the quad will be tricky as you usually have 3 pieces in your anchor (meaning you have to tie two pieces of protection together to end up with two clip-in points for your quad). Belay transitions on multi-pitch climbs can offer dramatic direction of load changes too. The Quad Is Awesome/Terrible: Examining the Applicability of Sliding Anchor Rigging Methods . The sliding x sling gets cut. Mar 13, 2016 · I've never liked the 'Pre Equalized Anchor; AKA Cord-o-lette, instead opting for a version of the two-point self-equalizing, sliding X anchor backed up with a third independent anchor using sewn spectra slings. A sliding x without limiter knots is probably fine. Best Situation To Use The Quad Anchor To equalize two bomber anchor points such as a two-bolt anchor. However, a quad makes sense to some people when every anchor is bolted, because you can pre-tie the quad and leave it tied all day. What then? Cordalette has been feeling like overkill, especially carrying two of them for the top & bottom anchor. - The quad will extend slightly should either anchor point fail. Quad anchors are mainly used for sp I am looking into the use of the equalette for multi pitch trad and am wondering the best solution for setting up a direct belay point, seeing as the master point isn't a knot. Two realistic possible cases here (things such as gremlins and murderous partners aside). Using the Sliding X without limiter knots is no Advantages and Disadvantages of the Sliding-X Photo 1: Advantage - When anchors are off-set, the sliding-x self-equalizes. be/she8vH1DCBU and at around 13:30, they talk about how you have to choose specific strands out of the 4 to twist into the X in order for the anchors to be redundant. An anchor component fails, in which case extension occurs and the sliding x still catches as designed. Edit: For either the quad or masterpoint anchor as a top rope setup, only the carabiner that the rope is going through needs to be a locker (1 or 2 depending on paranoia). It makes up for the short comings of each system, while incorporating their strengths to produce a more SRENE anchor. ). And a sliding X, although better, might only achieve a distribution of something like 66% There is a way to set you anchor after a lead as a quad anchor and then use the quad as a tether when you clean, but this can sometimes lead to difficult positions compared to a traditional Personal anchor system. Pull the two loops downward between the bolts and in the intended direction of pull (direction of the climber). FWIT, I've never used sliding X's except for belay anchors. One of the criticisms of the cordalette is after you've tied the master knot, you have potentially poor equalization if you deviate from your set The sliding X is another common anchor you might see, which is relatively simple and does not require any more gear than the BFK. Mar 3, 2025 · You can leave your quad rigged for a long day out. 2021 . Photo Galleries; My Photo Gallery; Latest Photos; Weekly Top 10; Videos; Latest Videos; Categories; Hashtags; Athletes; Search Feb 26, 2018 · I don't see the point of them on multi pitch routes even if it's a sport route with bolts for every station. This video shows how to build a quad anchor and all the different details of when to use it and how it can be modified. a. This is a s elf-equalization anchor. This is definitely less than desirable. With the sling having the doubled over strands (in a quad configuration) it might be tough to maintain clean knots versus just using a cordolette. My Profile User Options Jan 1, 2015 · When you need an anchor that allows for a change of direction in the climb, while remaining equalized. This can shock-load the remaining piece(s). Oct 15, 2022 · I saw this video, youtu. 1. I don't like using a Sliding X, but is it the best application here? What if the belay is to be built with gear?(assuming good pro) <img=jpeg Sep 1, 2008 · I don't see the point of them on multi pitch routes even if it's a sport route with bolts for every station. I'd recommend a longer one for trad, or a web-o-lette (rabbit runner). Then set up a sliding x with a sling to belay from. It's dealing with the rope, especially if you aren't switching leads. A 240 cm sling can be handy for many kinds of anchor building, especially for equalizing three points of protection, orslinging around a tree. I was taught to clip personal anchor into one or both of the bolts (or clove hitch for second if it works better). Now, I should have said that the anchor on the left is a really nice setup for multipitch climbing because you isolate yourself from the belay device/follower. Unlike the cordelette, it doesn’t require re-tying at each stance. This shift is barely noticeable on a well set up anchor. 2. Photo Galleries; My Photo Gallery; Latest Photos; Weekly Top 10; Videos; Latest Videos; Categories; Hashtags; Athletes; Search There are pros and cons to both the Sliding X and the Figure 8 on a Bight. A relatively common debate among certain segments of recreational climbers, both in-person and online, is the value of sliding rigging systems for climbing anchors. Advanced Search. A quad is fine. This anchor utilizes the "Sliding X" and knots on either side to eliminate extensions. Posted by u/Tradhappy - 4 votes and 10 comments Apr 23, 2015 · When building natural anchors my go-to is the cordalette because it's easy to equalize multiple pieces. For flexibility, nothing beats sliding X. A master 8 is fine. A carabiner comes unclipped, in which case extension occurs and the sliding x catches as designed. Two draws is fine. Apr 13, 2017 · The equalette is the evolution and combination of the cordalette and sliding-x. By mzvarner May 13, 2009 in Rock Climbing Forum. This anchor design can also be adapted to use premade quad anchor slings. Quad is a really useful tool for top rope in areas where top anchors are bolts with small spacing between them, otherwise, the V angle of load will increase the force on anchor. Phew, a long one! This one's intended to be a bit of a reference video so is chat heavy! It covers most sling belay set ups showing how to do 'em plus the general pros and cons. " Posted by u/trollhawk - 2 votes and 23 comments Jun 30, 2023 · The direction of load applied to an anchor changes. I prefer to clip the two strands at the master point, rather than making a sliding x. You will need a sling for every pair of anchor pieces, so a three point anchor will require two slings. Hi everybody, Since 2006 I followed that long debate regarding anchors with sliding X, cordelette, equalette, quad and triplette. My Profile User Options Jul 15, 2020 · The realities of self equalizing anchorsThe terms “self-equalizing” and “load distributing” have often been used to describe anchor systems which are rigged in such a way that they have some ability to adjust laterally under load and align themselves with the direction of the force applied to them, purportedly maintaining an equal distribution of forces on each anchor leg. There is zero redundancy there. This setup limits (catches) the carabiners in the event that one side of the anchor fails. Aug 16, 2021 · Building a Sliding X Anchor. However, not wanting to make this mistake, I was testing with my own 240cm sling and getting very different results. Hence the Saved Content. Quads and Fixed Leg Systems. The sliding X is a relatively simple way to connect two anchor points, while creating a system that adjusts to the direction of pull. This setup is only for 2 anchor points. This is the classic self-equalizing anchor. Step By Step Guide To Set Up Top Rope Anchors With Sliding X . Derek DeBruin . You do this by securing yourself to one locker on two strands (with a clove hitch and the rope) and place your belay device on the other two strands to belay up your follower. My Profile User Options Hi all, So me and my partners are about to head on our first major multipitch adventure--El Potrero Chico!--and I'm sifting through some approaches… I thought I would ask because Excitableboy's link to the cordelette vs. A sliding X rigged from a single 60 cm will have just as much reach as a quad build from a 120 cm sling, and a sliding X 120cm will give you more reach than any of the previously mentioned options. . To create a sliding X: Clip a single sling to the carabiners at each anchor point. Jan 27, 2018 · Forums. Setting up Your Quad Anchor Jun 7, 2024 · Some people think this is called the quad anchor because it uses a “quad” length sling, or 240 cm. of the equalette to be the quad, which is effectively a sliding-x variant that features double the normal number of strands of material in the rigging (four strands vs. This is a fantastic choice at the summit of a sports climb where there are two bolts side by side. Share We built a full anchor and broke it, over and over again on our Bolt Buster concrete slab and then again on our slack snap machine. Things then get even more complicated when you use a quad to create a 3-point anchor, as the load is split not once but Dec 30, 2015 · The concept is probably fine, but I think your photo is a sliding x with limiter knots, not a quad. The belayer could lean on an anchor in one direction, the belay might tug the anchor in a different direction, and two climbers at an anchor might fidget and tug and lean in lots of directions. e. I thought I would ask because Excitableboy's link to the cordelette vs. Clip the sling into two bolts. It can't be exhaustive, but it shows most stuff. But your sliding knot is a terrible idea unlesss you need to move around and want to keep a bomber (meaning all 3 pieces are perfect placements in quality rock) anchor equalized. sliding x article in a different forum got me to thinking about belay anchors. My hope is to provide a bit more comprehensive reference on the topic instead of the pieces of the conversation that regularly appear here. Moved Permanently. My Forums My Topics Search Forums Premier Posts Posting Guidelines Help Search. But for side by side bolts like this, many people find it’s too long, a bit bulky, and hard to rack. I think I like quad anch Oct 13, 2021 · Two opposed quickdraws is not a good anchor for multipitch because it doesn’t offer an easy way to go in-direct or belay. Contrary to the sliding-X method, this method is more complex to make. Illustrated with 266 photos, drawings, and diagrams, key fundamentals are detailed with bullet points, and assessment guidelines for nuts, cams, and anchor systems are spelled out in easy to remember acronyms, simplifying the most Jun 22, 2021 · I've collected some of my thoughts and comments from those threads and put them in this explainer to shed some light on the risks associated with sliding rigging systems (i. Login; User. After reading this article, I am seriously thinking about changing to the Quad anchor, The only time this force would be significant would be if the extension caused the belayer to fall (as it easily could in a hanging belay) and the belayer was attached to the anchors with a static connection, or was connected with dynamic rope but the length of the extension was large compared with the length of rope that they were attached with. ly/3vhJwab Or buy a Sling Mountain T Shirt?! bit. A sliding X is dynamically equalized: if you pull the locking carabiner in different directions, the sling will shift so that both pieces are (close to) equally Saved Content. Apr 27, 2016 · Write for UKC Gear Latest Gear Gear News Gear Reviews Competitions Latest Deals Product Videos In this episode, Mike goes over three examples of a sliding X anchor using Dyneema slings. When people get into internet arguments about anchors there are two conflicting goals what is the "best" and what "works. ly/3clZ1pc / jbmountainskills / jbmountainskills www. Just use your quad wherever you would otherwise be building a sliding x. Setting up anchors isn't what takes time in multipitch. The only place o can see their functionality is in multipitch sport where you want a sound anchor to hang and belay off of. Photos 2 & 3: Disadvantage - If one of the bots fails, then the sliding-x anchor will "extend", which means the anchor point will travel down the length of the webbing until it stops, which will increase the impact force on the remaining bolt. Nov 12, 2021 · The 'shelf' on one side of the quad is only loaded on the single bolt above it. Jan 27, 2018 · Saved Content. The downside to the sliding X is that it is not as strong as a quad (a single dyneema is significantly weakened when knotted), and it doesn’t self Moved Permanently. It’s also worth noting that anchor sides with two legs will behave as stationary anchors and will not adjust to changes in direction of pull. Jul 11, 2016 · BoulderCharles wrote:The quad is great for bolted belays as it is fast, allows for some movement of the master point, and gives you more room in the master point. quad, sliding x, etc. If you have any recommendations for any other types of sliding X a We did a lot of testing with Sterling and found that binding was a bigger factor than first suspected, especially with sliding X, where a sling is basically hitched around the biner, less so on somethng like a quad, where anchor point biners are clipped though a comparatively wide loop. (Photo: Jay Philbrick Photography) Pro climber and guide Genevive Walker demonstrates how to build a quad anchor. Since then, the quad has increased significantly in popularity and use. Want to buy me a coffee or the boy a dog treat?! bit. This makes it a poor choice for anything other than the scenarios above, where they are part of a larger system. Feb 2, 2025 · Quad Anchor Method. I have included 2 Overhand Knots in this method to act as limiter knots. The document has moved here. By mixing the best ideas provided by many of you, in particular asdf, trenchdigger and mhabitch, I worked out something based on the Quad power point, but with the advantage of using a self equalizing and perfect load distribution on 4 pro as proposed originaly by While a quad can split a load fairly evenly between two arms, a sliding X might only achieve a 70/30 split since the twist in the sling at the master point creates friction which puts most of the load on one of the two arms. two strands, hence the “quad” moniker; see Figure 1). To some degree all of these internet anchor questions are like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. In the realm of vertical rock I'm still mostly a sport climber transitioning to trad and haven't had to build too many anchors yet. pnutpg hhohn tyksh tql dgsra hecrffq azee gibru jfhac vmdni